closest-fitting human relationship. The older brother is angry and refuses to come into the party. “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased” (Matt. In our experience as artists … Yah'shua is quoted in Peter's book written down by Mark: If he were a created being, that would mean that he made himself. 1: 23). Now, in Genesis 1:2, we see that the “ Spirit of God ” was also involved in creation. Jesus existed throughout time with God as one, but separate. Likewise, John presents Christ as the Creator of all things. This spiritual forsakenness, spiritual wrath from the Father, occurs deep down in the very godhead itself. It was God's spoken words that were used to create the world, and it is "every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" which gives life and light to humanity. Thus the Son is the Father as well. Lucifer was…, Table of Contents PatripassianismGod the Father at the baptism of the SonGod the Father witnesses to the SonJesus and the GodheadPaul and the Godhead Patripassianism In Christian theology, “patripassianism” is…. Hovering over the earth, ensuring that the Father’s plan to create through the Son, is effectual. But something was torn in … The Father is a 2020 drama film co-written and directed by Florian Zeller, in his directorial debut, based on his 2012 play Le Père. This mystery of the faith cannot be fully understood by the human mind but is a key doctrine of Christianity. We can turn our backs on our heavenly Father and leave him of our own free will. Jesus did not create everything else. This includes the whole universe. This false doctrine says the Son was an inferior being to the Father. Your Question (required) Would you like this question answered on our show? All things were created through Him and for Him” (Colossians 1:16). The answer to your question is "yes". This is one of the mysteries of God that is unfathomable to us mortals. But God, the Father, the One God (1 Cor. Of course God has put all creation under His Son. One of the proof texts used to support this theory that Christ was made (and therefore did not always exist like the Father) is in Revelation 3.. God the Father did not in any way create God the Son. There is no other God. FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson. By this act, Jesus has associated us with himself as his siblings. When the doctrine of the Trinity was clearly … The heavens and the earth were created by God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. I have always said it was Jesus, but the whole 3 persons of the Trinity were involved in creating the Heavens and the Earth, thus the Universe. But the subject is “your enemies” not creation itself! It's the language of "Trinity," not the base concepts that evolved into the Nicene Creed, which is a stumbling block for most Jews. According to Genesis 1, we could say God the Father, but notice that the Spirit of God is also involved (Genesis 1:2). It was in this context that Irenaeus brought creation to bear in his own theological account. The Messiah Jesus was the reason for all creation, the occasion for creation, since as the firstborn he is to possess all authority over everything under God. But still, the Father SENT the Son, who is a person different than himself. When Jesus died on the cross, did God the Father suffer. English, Arabic (العربية), Spanish (Español), French (Français), Hindi (हिन्दी), Satan was the originator of sin. Social abandonment was horrible but came from outside. The Spirit presides over and finishes the work of creation. I think that’s how the whole Trinity idea came about - Christians not being able to reconcile three Gods with the one God of Israel. Saying that the Son was eternally subordinate to the Father is not the same as the heresy known as Subordinationism. Again. I do not think that our minds can actually comprehend “eternal”. This does not make Him not-God any more than your arm's subjection to and dependence on your brain makes it not-your-body. But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews indeed a stumbling block, and unto the Gentiles foolishness (1 Cor. Well, "all things were made by Him [the Word which became flesh and dwelt among us], and without Him was not anything made that was made...". God the Father did not create Jesus because John 1:3 says that nothing was made that was made without Jesus! The question posed is the meaning of John 1 (the Word) and whether the Father created the Son. >but truly God Himself, who is almighty, the Creator of all things, and invisible, has sent from heaven, and placed among men, [Him who is] the truth, and the holy and incomprehensible Word, and has firmly established Him in their hearts. Jesus Christ, therefore, is not the first creature produced by God the Father. The United Pentecostal sect alleges that Jesus and the Father are the same Person. Perhaps we should reconvene and discuss this in Nicea. He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14:7, 9). Who created the heavens and the earth? The question posed is the meaning of John 1 (the Word) and whether the Father created the Son. God created the incarnate Jesus to save us. Amen. And in John 1:14, he sets Him forth as the agent of divine kindness for the re-creation, of all things. Did the Father Create the Son? Secondarily, In Phillipians 2:5-7, it addresses Christ’s equality with the Father. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". Since God is eternal, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are eternal. Likewise the Ruach. Before sin, Satan was called Lucifer. John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”. We have seen previously that Jesus Christ, the Son of God and second person of the Trinity, was involved with God the Father in the creation of everything (John 1:1–3). 2:20). At the baptism of Jesus, the Father himself spoke. Just as the Father is all-powerful, so also is the Son, and so forth. But this interaction goes much differently. In contrast to predecessors and contemporaries like Justin, Irenaeus used creation to distinguish the Just as the light and heat of the sun are inseparable attributes of it, so the Son and the Spirit are eternal attributes of God, emanating (i.e., "begotten") from Him rather than created by Him in the sense that the universe was created. It was through him (Col.1:16) that the Father created all. Just as the light and heat of the sun would be eternal if the sun never had a beginning or end, so the Son and Spirit share in the Father's attribute of eternality. Thus, from past eternal ages, Jesus was not an inactive being. Tony Flores. Revelation 3:14 states "These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God" (KJV). Some believers think that Jesus, the Word of God, was created by the Father somewhere in the eternal past. But it is also true that all things were created through God's Son, Jesus. The difference is that he is the divine and sinless Son of the Father by … I am the Lord. Bible Based. If not, John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16 make it clear … (”I and the Father are one.” John 10:30). The Son pleads for us in the presence of the Father and the Father forgives us because of the Son’s intercession on our behalf. Real Questions. Not only are we created through the mediating ministry of God the Son but we are saved from death through Him. In the Old Testament there are passages in which God presents Himself as a mother tenderly caring for her … Some today suggest that he did not exist at all, or if he did, he was nothing more than a good man or a wise philosopher. The Word is Christ and existed in the beginning. For example, note the first contrast between the Son and angels in v.7 “And” and v.8 “But.” So to suddenly switch to the Father in contrast to the angels in vv10-12; v13 breaks the theme. For me, the statement from John does not imply that the Father created the Son; it says that He was there from the beginning. No. I do not believe that God or the Son operate in a linear fashion so our linear concept of “eternal” is not the same as God’s knowledge of “eternal”. Paul announces the great truth that God, and God alone, brought “all things” into existence. It is the heat of the Sun that gives life, and it is the Ruach (Breath, Spirit) of God that gives us our life. Thus Christ (the Son) is the Father of all temporal things. At the same time, we are not talking about an equal Triune. That illustrates to me that the Father created the world by means of the Son. He was created by God (Ezekiel 28:13, 15) as were all the other angels (Ephesians 3:9). To use a pre-Nicean model, the Father is like the sun, the Son like the light of the sun, and the Spirit like its heat. We prepare ourselves to return to live in Their presence. “Yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live” (1 Corinthians 8:6). The Father is the one who eternally begets the Son, and the Father through the Son eternally breathes the Holy Spirit. John 6:40, “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” We can see that Jesus came down from heaven to do the will of the Father and that of all that he’s been given by the Father he would lose none (v. 39). He is also the father. All things were created by and for Jesus. The apostle Paul reiterates: “There is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, … https://www.learnreligions.com/origin-of-the-son-of-god-700710 March 18 2014 • Report. Disclaimer: Because "Trinity" emphasizes a threeness, where the Bible, Yeshua's teachings included, emphasize God's Oneness (the Shema, as XeniaSt has already pointed out), and "persons" unfortunately has the connotation of "independent beings," no matter how many caveats you put around it. The Father had its world premiere at the Sundance Film Festival on … He’s … Therefore, all created things in this world owe their continuing existence and salvation to the Godhead that “worketh all in all” (1 Corinthians 12:6). 8:6) is the creator of all things: They have always existed, and they will always exist. That is very good, but also the demons believed that too and they were shaking with fear. Please be respectful of the opinions of others. Thus, from past eternal ages, Jesus was not an inactive being. God the Father is the one who has created all things! God the Father, and God the Son (Jesus was only the name given to him when he was on Earth) have existed for eternity along with God the Holy Spirit. We draw near to God the Father as we study the scriptures and the words of latter-day prophets and as we give service. But God the Father organized everything spiritually, including the Son making Him the Father of the Son. When we consider the greatness of God’s creation, the countless millions of heavenly bodies around God’s throne, not only do we have a greater idea of who God is; we are led to proclaim with David, “What is man that You are mindful of him, and the son of man that You visit him?” (Psalm 8:4). I will just … He did not, as one might have imagined, send to men any servant, or angel, or ruler, or any one of those who bear sway over earthly things, or one of those to whom the government of things in the heavens has been entrusted, but the very Creator and Fashioner of all things by whom He made the heavens by whom he enclosed the sea within its proper bounds whose ordinances “ all the stars. The word (the message) of God became flesh in the person of Jesus of Nazareth, an individual who fully embodied God's message to humanity. Though He was the eternal uncreated Son He was still not equal to the Father in His being or attributes. The father, son and Holy Spirit are one being, just as man is made up of body, soul, and spirit. This is the deepest, darkest part of Jesus’ suffering. In (Jude 1:25) Jude also says ‘’He is only the one and only … Paul Masters Posted on 01/29/2008 10:03:48 AM PST by tortdog. >2 The same was in the beginning with God. Ron, I think you have the most understanding answer to the question. Just as the Father is eternal, so also is the Son. Post your own thoughts, as opposed to simply copy/pasting of the opinions of others. There is no subordination in being of the Son to the Father. John 1:1-3stands out as one of the more important passages on the background of Is “Wisdom” here the Son of God? Later a monk named Arius (c. A.D. 250-336) argued that: “there was a time when the Son was not.” Supposedly the Father created him. And in (James 2:19) James says you believe there is one God. Why? The genius of God was that He took that act of ultimate degradation and turned it into the greatest of honorable deeds. That's not the only "stumbling block" for the Jews. … The Father and the Son had two distinct functions in creation yet worked together to bring about the cosmos. The catalog … Since God is neither male nor female, why does He reveal Himself as Father and Son? God the Father made all things through his Son, Jesus Christ. God the Father is the first Person of the Trinity, which also includes his Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit created the world and they created Adam and Eve – “Let us...” This must be true, since God is a plural-one or a triune being. Of course, supporting your beliefs with short quotes is helpful. xxxiv in P.G., LXXV, 585); “When the Holy Ghost comes into our hearts, He makes us like to God, because He proceeds from the Father and the Son”; and again (Epist., xvii, Ad Nestorium, De excommunicatione in P.G., LXXVII, 117): “The Holy Ghost is not unconnected with the Son, for He is called the Spirit of Truth, and Christ is the Truth; so He … The Father’s plan is to save sinners through Christ, his Son. For a second time in the parable of the prodigal son the father goes out to restore a relationship. exemption for fair use of copyrighted works. Yet a father-son relationship is a close relationship, both The Father and the Son love each other, and are in fact the same God. If there was a time he didn't exist, then he is not eternal. The Son was always in the process of being begotten by the Father-both Father and Son are eternal. The older brother would rather wallow in self-pity than join in the party. posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the And in John 1:14, he sets Him forth as the agent of divine kindness for the re-creation, of all things. Get our latest answers straight to your inbox when you subscribe here. Jesus recognized his sonship by telling the Jewish leaders, “My Father worketh hitherto, and I work” (John 5:17). The Bible says that men and women alike are created in the image of God, so any non-physical properties of masculinity and femininity which there might be must be alike comprised by God’s nature. God the Father endowed His Son, as a fellow worker. The miraculous conception makes him the Son of God in a special sense (Luke 1:35). And the exercise of creative power was evidence to the deity of Christ. Modern Jehovah’s Witnesses teach a similar notion. But He was actively and intimately allied with the Father in the creation and administration of “all things.”. He created it to be living on. management. Christ didn’t just create this world but all that was ever made. Being crucified was the ultimate dishonor, the ultimate repudiation of the idea that the victim had anything worthwhile to offer or was worth following. When we follow God’s will and live as He would have us live, we become more like Him and His Son. If he is not eternal, he is not God, which violates John 1:1. >and without him was not any thing made that was made. Click Here. Actually, to both the Greeks and the Jews of that day, it was the "crucified" part that was the stumbling block. He is one with the Father. He created all things and without Him nothing was made that was made! He seems to fabricate the accusation of his brother hiring prostitutes, something the story never mentions. If the son was created, then there was a time when he didn't exist. They both always were and always have been. The Son has been given dominion over all, just as the Father. The Father Allowed the Son to Suffer Spiritual Wrath. Please be respectful of the opinions of others. Real Answers. Or, as one commentator whose name escapes me for a moment has pointed out, subjection in role does not require a different essence. He is rather his externally only-begotten Son. No, it does not! Jesus is also the perfect image of his Father, having in himself no defect or imperfection. If there is eternal before and after, then there is no beginning either. We think in linear fashion. According to the Bible, and to the ancient creeds of Christianity, the Son of God is eternal. As the Psalmist says of the animals, “When you [God] send forth your Spirit, they are created” (Psalm 104:30). In Eastern Orthodox theology, God the Father is the arche or principium ("beginning"), the "source" or "origin" of both the Son and the Holy Spirit, and is considered the eternal source of the Godhead. Just as the light of the sun is dependent on the sun and subject to its variances, so Yeshua is subject to the Father, doing only what the Father tells Him to do. The Bible teaches that Christ was associated with the Father in the work of creation. Likewise, John presents Christ as the Creator of all things. Then there is Proverbs chapter 8, verses 22-31, where “Wisdom” was associated with the Father in Creation. I think your question relates to the Trinity. And He invites man to become a partaker with Him in glory. Each member of the Trinity is both 100% God and 100% of God, but no two members of the Trinity are each other Hence the wider context in Heb. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all different manifestations of God. For it is by the Father, that all things were created. The early church father Origen held to a form of Subordinationism. “For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever” (Romans 11:36). We dare not speculate lest we blaspheme. We are encouraged to pray to the Father and enabled to do so because the Son has united us to him in his death and resurrection (Gal. 3:17). God the Father endowed His Son, as a fellow worker. What some of us object to is the term "Trinity" and the "One God in Three Persons" formula. Christ is part of the Godhead. There was never a time when He did not exist. A French-British co-production, the film stars Anthony Hopkins, Olivia Colman, Mark Gatiss, Imogen Poots, Rufus Sewell, and Olivia Williams, and follows an aging man who must deal with his progressing memory loss. And because He is the Creator, He is able to make man “a new creature” and restore His divine image in him (2 Corinthians 5:17). He did this through the active agency of Jesus Christ- the Son (John 1:1–3, 14; Colossians 1:16, 17; Hebrews 1:2). Posted on 01/29/2008 10:03:48 AM PST by tortdog. Christians believe there is one God who exists in three Persons. We can be a genuine son of the Father--who is spiritually "alive"--and be "lost" through sin. Emotional desertion was painful but only inside Jesus. Sons are subordinate to their fathers, as Jesus was subordinate to the Father while he was on Earth and submitted to his will. Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual This YHVH ELOHIM was also called LOGOS (the Word Creator) in John 1; who incarnated into Jesus. While the Father created all, the "proximate" Creator was YHVH ELOHIM translated as 'Lord God' in Genesis 2 and generic 'Elohim' in Genesis 1. Post your own thoughts, as opposed to simply copy/pasting of the opinions of others. So, there is nothing that was created that Jesus did not have a part in creating. Answer “The Son is of the Father alone, not made, nor created, but begotten” (The Athanasian Creed, verse 22). You can't actually see the sun or its heat, you only see the light--in the same way, no one has seen the Father, only the Son, who is the Word/Torah, Wisdom, and Sh'kinah (Visible Presence) of God. The latter saint further asserts (Thesaur., assert. All things, material or immaterial, are covered by this term.
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